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	<title>Comments on: Did Jesus Call us to Nonviolence? (Part 1)</title>
	<link>http://thekingdomnow.blogsome.com/2007/01/27/did-jesus-call-us-to-nonviolence-part-1/</link>
	<description>Collecting my thoughts on what it means to be the church, among other things.</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 05 Dec 2009 11:12:11 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>by: James</title>
		<link>http://thekingdomnow.blogsome.com/2007/01/27/did-jesus-call-us-to-nonviolence-part-1/#comment-88</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Feb 2007 22:54:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://thekingdomnow.blogsome.com/2007/01/27/did-jesus-call-us-to-nonviolence-part-1/#comment-88</guid>
					<description>Hey Luke -
Thanks for taking the time to sift through my cliffs notes. Brimlow spends a lot of time on Bonhoeffer and on the third question you raise. I've written up some notes on that, but I want to publish it in a more bloggish, reader-friendly way. That's in some of the later chapters, so at this pace, look for that around Christmas, 2009. 

As far as I can remember, he dosen't address the Centurian thing directly, but my best guess is his response would be something like the following: Yes, there are a number of instances where Christ calls people to leave their sin, like with the woman at the well. However, it is problematic to argue that whenever Christ does not call someone to change their ways, that he condones their behavior. For example, just before he dies Jesus has an exchange with the thief on the cross next to him. He acknowledges the man's faith, and does not say anything negative about him. I don't think we can then argue that Jesus condones theft.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Hey Luke -<br />
Thanks for taking the time to sift through my cliffs notes. Brimlow spends a lot of time on Bonhoeffer and on the third question you raise. I&#8217;ve written up some notes on that, but I want to publish it in a more bloggish, reader-friendly way. That&#8217;s in some of the later chapters, so at this pace, look for that around Christmas, 2009. </p>
	<p>As far as I can remember, he dosen&#8217;t address the Centurian thing directly, but my best guess is his response would be something like the following: Yes, there are a number of instances where Christ calls people to leave their sin, like with the woman at the well. However, it is problematic to argue that whenever Christ does not call someone to change their ways, that he condones their behavior. For example, just before he dies Jesus has an exchange with the thief on the cross next to him. He acknowledges the man&#8217;s faith, and does not say anything negative about him. I don&#8217;t think we can then argue that Jesus condones theft.
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		<title>by: Luke</title>
		<link>http://thekingdomnow.blogsome.com/2007/01/27/did-jesus-call-us-to-nonviolence-part-1/#comment-87</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Feb 2007 10:07:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://thekingdomnow.blogsome.com/2007/01/27/did-jesus-call-us-to-nonviolence-part-1/#comment-87</guid>
					<description>Finally got around to reading some of these posts, just had a few thoughts that I can't follow up with, but I thought I'd throw them out there...

1) Brimlow says:

&quot;There is no record of a Christian writer approving of participation in warfare until 330 AD, and no record of Christians in the Roman army until 173 AD.&quot;

How does he mesh that with Christ's interaction with the Centurian, where he doesn't speak to the profession of 'soldier' either positively or negatively?  We have other examples of Christ specifically calling people away from sin (woman at the well, etc.).

2) Bonhoeffer was a pacifist, but at the same time wasn't he involved in a plot to assassinate Hitler?

3) It sounds like Brimlow is saying something like:

&quot;he basically concludes that Christians are always called to return good for evil, even if it means we die. Even in the face of something as awful as the Nazis, we should resist violence.&quot;

But that's not really the question is it?  The hitler question goes beyond &quot;bad&quot; being done to &quot;us&quot; or &quot;me&quot;--I would restate it something like &quot;if Hitler is killing millions of people, even if it doesn't directly affect me, do I have a moral obligation to try and stop it, even if it means using violence?&quot;.  Does Brimlow address that question?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Finally got around to reading some of these posts, just had a few thoughts that I can&#8217;t follow up with, but I thought I&#8217;d throw them out there&#8230;</p>
	<p>1) Brimlow says:</p>
	<p>&#8220;There is no record of a Christian writer approving of participation in warfare until 330 AD, and no record of Christians in the Roman army until 173 AD.&#8221;</p>
	<p>How does he mesh that with Christ&#8217;s interaction with the Centurian, where he doesn&#8217;t speak to the profession of &#8217;soldier&#8217; either positively or negatively?  We have other examples of Christ specifically calling people away from sin (woman at the well, etc.).</p>
	<p>2) Bonhoeffer was a pacifist, but at the same time wasn&#8217;t he involved in a plot to assassinate Hitler?</p>
	<p>3) It sounds like Brimlow is saying something like:</p>
	<p>&#8220;he basically concludes that Christians are always called to return good for evil, even if it means we die. Even in the face of something as awful as the Nazis, we should resist violence.&#8221;</p>
	<p>But that&#8217;s not really the question is it?  The hitler question goes beyond &#8220;bad&#8221; being done to &#8220;us&#8221; or &#8220;me&#8221;&#8211;I would restate it something like &#8220;if Hitler is killing millions of people, even if it doesn&#8217;t directly affect me, do I have a moral obligation to try and stop it, even if it means using violence?&#8221;.  Does Brimlow address that question?
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		<title>by: James</title>
		<link>http://thekingdomnow.blogsome.com/2007/01/27/did-jesus-call-us-to-nonviolence-part-1/#comment-74</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Feb 2007 13:30:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://thekingdomnow.blogsome.com/2007/01/27/did-jesus-call-us-to-nonviolence-part-1/#comment-74</guid>
					<description>At the risk of giving the ending away, he basically concludes that Christians are always called to return good for evil, even if it means we die. Even in the face of something as awful as the Nazis, we should resist violence. He chose the title because that is always the first question that students in his philosophy classes ask when they discuss non-violence. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>At the risk of giving the ending away, he basically concludes that Christians are always called to return good for evil, even if it means we die. Even in the face of something as awful as the Nazis, we should resist violence. He chose the title because that is always the first question that students in his philosophy classes ask when they discuss non-violence.
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		<title>by: Tyler Watson</title>
		<link>http://thekingdomnow.blogsome.com/2007/01/27/did-jesus-call-us-to-nonviolence-part-1/#comment-73</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Feb 2007 13:22:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://thekingdomnow.blogsome.com/2007/01/27/did-jesus-call-us-to-nonviolence-part-1/#comment-73</guid>
					<description>Yeah, me too. I want to lean towards pacifism, but I can't make the leap entirely. By the way, how does the book you're reading answer the question of the title? I know it's cliche to always bring up Hitler, but he is pretty much the worst example one could create and he and the Nazis were real. To a great extent bringing up Hitler is very concrete and not hypothetical at all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Yeah, me too. I want to lean towards pacifism, but I can&#8217;t make the leap entirely. By the way, how does the book you&#8217;re reading answer the question of the title? I know it&#8217;s cliche to always bring up Hitler, but he is pretty much the worst example one could create and he and the Nazis were real. To a great extent bringing up Hitler is very concrete and not hypothetical at all.
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		<title>by: James</title>
		<link>http://thekingdomnow.blogsome.com/2007/01/27/did-jesus-call-us-to-nonviolence-part-1/#comment-71</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jan 2007 15:01:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://thekingdomnow.blogsome.com/2007/01/27/did-jesus-call-us-to-nonviolence-part-1/#comment-71</guid>
					<description>Maybe we should write your back and forth essay book. Of course, that means I would need to fit into one of those two categories. Rats.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Maybe we should write your back and forth essay book. Of course, that means I would need to fit into one of those two categories. Rats.
</p>
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		<title>by: Tyler Watson</title>
		<link>http://thekingdomnow.blogsome.com/2007/01/27/did-jesus-call-us-to-nonviolence-part-1/#comment-70</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jan 2007 12:30:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://thekingdomnow.blogsome.com/2007/01/27/did-jesus-call-us-to-nonviolence-part-1/#comment-70</guid>
					<description>Thanks for posting this. I saw the book and was curious about it. I've got J. Daryl Charles' &lt;em&gt;Between Pacifism And Jihad: Just War And Christian Tradition&lt;/em&gt; on my to-read list. I wonder if there is some critical book of essays in which a Christian pacifist and a Christian just war theorist engage each other. That would be really helpful. I'm not a pacifist, but I've been influenced by many of the same writers you mentioned in your post. And while I agree with Stassen and Gushee in &lt;em&gt;Kingdom Ethics&lt;/em&gt; that Jesus at the very least was non-violent and pushes us towards non-violence, I'm not convinced that pacifism is the absolute way to go. This issue is a deep struggle for me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Thanks for posting this. I saw the book and was curious about it. I&#8217;ve got J. Daryl Charles&#8217; <em>Between Pacifism And Jihad: Just War And Christian Tradition</em> on my to-read list. I wonder if there is some critical book of essays in which a Christian pacifist and a Christian just war theorist engage each other. That would be really helpful. I&#8217;m not a pacifist, but I&#8217;ve been influenced by many of the same writers you mentioned in your post. And while I agree with Stassen and Gushee in <em>Kingdom Ethics</em> that Jesus at the very least was non-violent and pushes us towards non-violence, I&#8217;m not convinced that pacifism is the absolute way to go. This issue is a deep struggle for me.
</p>
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